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December 7, 2015

Note: Official YouTube Video Linked Through Subheadings in Transcript

ATTORNEY GENERAL ALAN WILSON: Of Ohio and certainly the private sector. He can tell you a little bit more about his background in just a moment, but there's an opportunity for us to really get to hear him. He's not going to be on stage with 13, 14 other people. You're going to get to hear up close and personal his views on various issues. Now, I've done a couple of these things already, and people always say, "He didn't touch on this issue or that issue." There are so many issues out there. We can't talk about all of them, but I do want to talk about the issues that I, as Attorney General, have had to deal with. Those are the issues involving the role of federal government as it relates to state, states sovereignty, and individual liberty. In just a few seconds I'm going to hand it off to let Governor Kasich make an opening remark, but I want to thank all of you for being here today. You could be anywhere else, and you chose to be here for lunch today, for a luncheon. I want to thank all of you for taking time. You're going to get to hear Governor Kasich talk about his views, his vision for America and our country and the direction we need to go. Then, you're going to take that information. You're going to be armed. You're going to use that, and you're going to go make an informed decision in a couple of weeks. More importantly, you're going to probably influence other decision makers, other voters here, so Governor Kasich you've got some force multiplier out here today that are going to be spreading your message. I hope and I know that you'll take advantage of this opportunity. Ladies and gentlemen, at this time, but I would like to go ahead and formally introduce Governor John Kasich. Let's give him a big round of applause.

GOV. JOHN KASICH: The thing that I have to tell you is I was looking forward to coming down here because I expected it was going to be extremely cold in Ohio, and it's warmer in Ohio today than it is in South Carolina. I know we’re here to hear about politics and all that, but it's been the craziest Fall. You know that this week is projected, every day is supposed to be in the 50s, and then this weekend it's supposed to be 60 degrees in Ohio. Is that unbelievable? What's the temperature going to be here? 70, all right. Well, you have me beat by a little bit. Anyway, it's nice to be here with the Attorney General. He's a good guy, smart guy. I know his daddy, and rather than getting into a big diatribe now, we'll just start asking questions, and maybe, I don't know, general, if it's all right with you, maybe at some point we can have a couple of them jump up and bellow out of the crowd if they have something they haven't heard.

ATTORNEY GENERAL ALAN WILSON: I'm going to do best to keep this within an hour, so we'll go as quickly as we possibly can, and a balance of the time you want to give to the audience, we'll certainly do that.

GOV. JOHN KASICH: Yes. We just want to make sure they don't leave here saying, "Well, why didn't they ask this." Now, if it's really hard questions, please don't ask.

ATTORNEY GENERAL ALAN WILSON: I have to do one thing, one more housekeeping thing before we jump into it, before I do that, I wanted to say this, this table is very wobbly, Governor, and you've got a hot cup of coffee

GOV. JOHN KASICH: It's fine. I can control it.

ATTORNEY GENERAL ALAN WILSON: Y’all might actually see some hot coffee spilled on the Governor later during the hour, but we're going to try to be very conversational. This isn't like a debate. This is going to be very conversational like we're sitting at a restaurant talking about issues, and you are all sitting in the booth with us. That's what we're going for. Now, first, I want to go ahead and thank some folks before we jump into the questions with the Governor. I should have done this before he started talking, but, first, this is the second time we've done this. I've got to thank the Grand Strand Business Alliance, the Myrtle Beach Chamber of Commerce, area chamber of commerce for so much. I see you in the back, Brad Dean who is not here today has been such an instrumental part in their staffs. What an amazing group of people that represent the business community here so well. At least give them a round of applause real quick. Jim Preel in the Crown Reef Resort and Conference Center staff, all the folks that helped put this together. What a wonderful venue for us. I want to go ahead and thank them. We have a lot of important people here today. You're all important in my opinion, but I do want to identify some of the electives that traveled to be with us today. We have Councilman Bob Chiles with us. Councilman Cam Crawford, County School Board Chairman Joe Defeo, Chairman Randy Hollister, Georgetown GOP. We have Chairman Robert Regan with the Erie county GOP, Councilman Gary Glotis from Horry County. We have Senator Ray Claring sitting up here in the front, Representative Greg Dunworth, Representative Russel Fry. We have Representative Heather Emans-Crawford. I already mentioned Brad Dean earlier, and the Cherry Chambers and Grand Strand Business Alliance but there's one other person I want to give a quick shout out to. We have a Conservative Leadership Project intern today who it is her 20th birthday and she's here volunteering. Where is Sarah Abbott? Sarah Abbott, there she is. She's behind the camera ladies and gentlemen. Happy Birthday Sarah.

SA: Thank you.

Judicial Philosophy

ATTORNEY GENERAL ALAN WILSON: We could sing happy birthday but we don't want to eat into the time of the governor so we're going to go ahead. Listen, if I have omitted your name I'm sure someone will pass me a note and then we'll I'll identify you in the back end. We're going to go ahead and jump into the whole reason we're here. Okay Governor, you heard my initial kick off that the next president is going to have a profound impact on Supreme Court. As the governor you've had the opportunity to appoint a line of judges in your home state. The first question I would like to ask, go ahead and tell the audience here a little bit about your judicial philosophy. I know that we don't believe in litmus tests but what things are you looking for the Supreme Court or one of the lower courts.

GOV. JOHN KASICH: I've appointed well over 100 judges and also one member of the Ohio Supreme Court. All of our judges were elected. Sometimes they were appointed if there was a vacancy. It happens that the person I appointed to the Ohio Supreme Court happens to be a woman, which I'm thrilled when we came to that conclusion. I basically setup a committee and I charge them with picking somebody who is basically conservative. What do I mean by that? Their job is to interpret the laws. It is not to make the law. We don't want to have judges making laws. That's not their job. That's the legislative branch and so I look for character. I look for record. I look for intelligence and it's worked out pretty well. Generally we've had good success. The number of people that we have appointed have been elected, that doesn't mean necessarily that makes us a good judge but if they're screwing things up and not representing the philosophy that I felt that they were going to they probably wouldn't win. We have a good success rate and the lady that serves on the Ohio Supreme Court is doing a fantastic job. I want judges to basically look at their record. You see who they are, and maybe not everybody has to be a judge. You might have somebody that comes from law school or something who could serve well, but you want somebody that's going to have common sense, good values and not try to make law.

Views on the Constitution as a Living Document

ATTORNEY GENERAL ALAN WILSON: Another question I always ask folks, this is important to me, that I believe there's two kinds of judges. There's one kind that views the U.S. Constitution or State Constitution with its original intent, the original intent of the people who drafted it. The words, whatever year, they’re with that Constitution and they intended that constitution to mean X, Y and Z. If the times require the Constitution to change then it should be ratified through a process outlined in the Constitution. Then there are others who view the constitution as a living document meaning that it evolves with the times. It might have been written to mean this 100 years ago but times require us to interpret differently, and so they give us a living document that changes with the times. What are your views on that and what would you expect your judges’ views to be on that?

GOV. JOHN KASICH: I don't think the constitution ought to evolve with the times. It is what is and if you want to change it then you have an amendment process. For example, I'm trying to pass an amendment to the US constitution to require federal balance budget. I don't think the judges ought to mandate it but it ought to be passed. I think we have too many things in our society that we're changing all the time. There got to be a few compasses. Don't you all think? There ought to be a couple compasses that we have in the world and one of them ought to be the constitution of the United States of America. That's pretty simple for me.

On Supreme Court Decisions

ATTORNEY GENERAL ALAN WILSON: What Supreme Court, I don't want to say recent Supreme Court’s decision, but they can be recent. They can be from 70 years ago, whatever. What Supreme Court decisions do you disagree with the most and why?

GOV. JOHN KASICH: There's some people that think the court's going to make some kind of a ruling on government employment, you know that? I didn't agree with the court decision on the individual mandate. I just think they obscured what the language said and there's a couple that I disagree. I think whenever you have court you're going to find these agreements but you by and large want to have a court that's going to interpret the laws as written. I think the individual mandate was ornamentally as some sort of a tax or something. I don't happen to agree with that.

ATTORNEY GENERAL ALAN WILSON: Okay, I want to go ahead and move to the next area, which is executive action or some might refer to it as the phone and pen section. The President says that he has a phone and he has a pen and he's going to use it. Give you two brief examples that I've dealt with as Attorney General, when I first came into office one of the first issues we dealt with was the Yucca Mount issue. As many of you know, that over 30 years numerous bipartisan Congresses have designated Yucca Mountain, which is out in Nevada, as the nuclear repository for the state's nuclear waste. Billions of dollars were spent doing environmental impact studies. Billions of dollars were spent studying the potential impacts this could have. Cost-benefit analysis was done. They even constructed a six mile long road in the middle of the mountain to help facilitate storage of the waste. South Carolina, I don't know if you knew this, was the third highest rate payer into nuclear waste plants. Anytime you pay your utility bill a fee is tacked on top of that and was collected by the utility companies and then collected the federal government to pay for all of that work at Yucca Mountain. I think South Carolina has paid several billion dollars for 30 years. Unilaterally, though the secretary of energy unilaterally took that off the table without any input from congress. It was just unilaterally done. They said, keep your nuclear waste. We'll keep the money. That's basically it.

GOV. JOHN KASICH: Probably got a lot of input from Congress from the guy who's the Senator from Nevada.

On Executive Action

ATTORNEY GENERAL ALAN WILSON: Well, absolutely, but from a process point of view it was a decision that was unilaterally executed, but, yes, the majority leader at the time was from Nevada. That's not inaudible. Another issue, and I'm going to go ahead and pitch the question, in November of last year the President stated that, "I just took action to change the law." It refers to the immigration law. A phrase the White House later clarified as the President speaking colloquially. This was in reference to his executive order on immigration which will allow 5 million illegal immigrants to remain in the U.S. He basically has all executive register ability and prosecutorial discretion. Do you believe federal administrative agencies are required to operate based on congressional or executive action when the two are in conflict?

GOV. JOHN KASICH: I'm suing the Obama Administration right now under EPA.


GOV. JOHN KASICH: We probably have something in common. I personally think I don't quite understand. I used to be a congressman and I don't think we've ever seen this kind of activity. I can't remember any. I don't think general that ... Alleged, the aircraft shouldn't be making laws either and this is something that I don't quite understand. I have a economic proposal to balance the federal budget to cut that. I've done this before. I was chairman of the budget committee in Washington. We created jobs. That's the whole purpose for it. The economy was growing, the same thing in Ohio. We were way in the hole and now we're doing terrific. There's still ways to go but thing I've never understood is why we let bureaucrats do what they do. In regard to that, I would freeze all federal regulations for at least a year and I would force the congress to vote on these things. If it's more than 100 million dollars there ought to be a congressional vote. Then we need to go back and look at the regulations we have because these are the things that are killing small business. Big companies can absorb a lot of these regulations but small people can't do it. In my state ... Look, when I talk about Ohio, I'm really talking about America. We're just nothing more than a snapshot of the entire country. We have everything in Ohio. When I travel the country I find Ohio everywhere and when I'm in Ohio I find Ohio everywhere. That's why the elections are always so close because it's so competitive in a snapshot of who we are. I have created a mechanism that we've begun to repeal regulations that don't make any sense. If I found out that my bureaucrats were making law how long do you think they would be there doing that? They wouldn't be doing that because I'm the governor and I got a legislature, so the idea that unelected bureaucrats can do all this this is a really, really…it's a bad idea. Secondly, what we really need to do is I got to get a lot more programs back to where you live. Why run all this stuff out of Washington? Education ought to be run in South Carolina. Medicaid ought to be run, transportation ... Let me give you another example. Senator's here. He's been struggling like crazy to figure out a transportation. You have that done yet senator? What are you here for? You better be back there getting this done. Here's what I'm proposing. Think about this. Right now in this state you go and you fill up your car and truck, whatever and you pay gas tax. You then collect that money and you send it to Washington. They then in the committees take that money and do with it what they want and then they send less back. Why not just not send it there to begin with. Then, what we could do is we need to maintain the interstate, so put a couple pennies down there in the till. Let them maintain the interstate and then you can keep ... Whatever you raise here you keep and then you can pave your roads or whatever you want. You can have whatever priorities you want. It shouldn't be somebody in Washington trying to decide what should be happening in South Carolina. We've actually voted on this several times and I guess we're getting a little bit closer to passing it, but I feel very strongly about the ability of states to manage their own infrastructure. For example, I believe that tolling ... I don't know how you feel about it but if you use something pay for it. You don't have to toll everything, but something you can toll. Right now, you can't toll a road that has federal money in it unless you go out and build another lane. Isn't that right senator? What kind of deal is that? Then the federal government decides to do things like Amtrak. I don't know if you know this, if you've ever been on an Amtrak train, but they have a restaurant on there and the restaurant can't even make money and it's not like you can get off. They offer by the way, a high speed train. It was really great. It was going to go from like Columbus to Cleveland, maybe to Cincinnati, high speed. It was going to 39 miles an hour. I can run faster than that. Better than sending our money down there to have people do what they want with it just keep it here. I think, senator, the whole country would be better under this and if they're some states that need a little extra help we throw another penny in. That's where we ought to be going on this. This is the 21st century by the way. The fact is that these regulations are killing small businesses. Secondly, I think there ought to be, when you do a regulation, that there ought to be a sense that the benefit outweighs the cost. We don't do that either. This is all screwed up, so we got to have a big change. Let me explain something to you, people can talk about big change. I deliver big change. I know how to get these things done. It's one thing to talk about it. Senator, am I right? It's another thing to do them. The things I talk about, they're not an election document. They are a governing document. I think these things I talk about today are things that I hope you would understand. These are the kind of things I would do right off the bat.

On Immigration

ATTORNEY GENERAL ALAN WILSON: Thank you Governor. Just a moment ago I mentioned one of the executive overreaches on immigration. I might add the 27 states including South Carolina. I've challenged that at the district and the appellate levels. I'm going above levels and now I'm going to possibly the top level. That begs the next question on immigration. What would you do to solve or to address the illegal immigration problem in United States?

GOV. JOHN KASICH: Well, the first thing we have to do is secure the boarder obviously. I don't know of anybody that doesn't think that's the case because we don't want people just walking in our country. Frankly, we now have to take a look at our entire visa program in light of what's been happening, but here physically the boarder needs to be secured. Then I think we need to have guest [worker 00:17:56] program where people can come in and go out legally with an employer who [needs 00:18:02] their own services. Then for the 11, 12 million that came here, that broke the law to get here, if they haven't broken any other laws I'd have them pay some penalties and fines, and do somethings that would allow them to have a path to legalization, not citizenship. The idea that we're going to deport 11 million people is ridiculous. It's not going to happen. Some of you may think it's going to happen. It isn't going to happen. Let's try to figure out how to one secure the border, make sure you have a legitimate guest worker program. Let's make sure we hold employers responsible for violating what the law is, and let's make sure that anybody that comes across, once the border is secured, goes back, no arguments, no lawyers, no discussions. Just go back. Come in legally, and then I think that's something they can literally pass the congress. I think the public, whenever they've set this down, they think that was fine. I was there when Ronald Regan tried to deal with this issue in 1986 and the problem was we didn't secure the border. That needs to be done and then I think we can get this resolved.

On Executive Orders

ATTORNEY GENERAL ALAN WILSON: Okay, we're going to move on to the next area which is federalism and the 10th amendment.

GOV. JOHN KASICH: You want me to talk about executive orders by the way because some of this ... Or is that coming later?


GOV. JOHN KASICH: As an executive I like executive orders and I like executive power but let me tell you that I do some executive orders but the one thing you don't want to do, unless you absolutely have to with an executive order, is you want to make sure you're talking to the legislature. They got some state reps, obviously, seven are here, if I was going to move on an executive order I tell them. What do you think? I'd want to check it out because what I don't want to do is enrage the people that I'm going to need to work with to get other things done. I think what the president do on these executive orders is he didn't even make an effort he didn't even make an effort to talk to the legislative leaders. He didn't ever call them down to the White House and say, look, here's what I'm going to do if you don't do something. We sit down and work something out. That's kind of how it works. Now, that might be boring in a presidential campaign but that's how it works folks. In my state we've gone from a loss of 350,000 jobs to a gain of almost 400,000, from a deficit of 8 billion to a 2 billion dollar surplus with a strong credit rating so I kind of know how to do this. I have my squabbles with the legislature but not much because you have to respect them, and I think what the president did with this was just to roll over everybody. You just can't do that as an executive. Every once in a while General ... Maybe every once in a while you got to say this just the way it's going to be and this is what we're going to do, but you don't want to make that a habit or a practice because, frankly, we're all part of a team to try to lift whatever situation we're in, whether we're the mayor, whether on the city council, whether in the school board. People got to work together to get things done and to make sure that we get good outcomes.

On the 10th Amendment and Federalism

ATTORNEY GENERAL ALAN WILSON: All right, thank you governor. Good answer. Now, we're going to do federalism and the 10th amendment. What is the proper role of the federal government as it relates to the states? When I talk to high school group what basically tell them is, guys, the constitution is a handbook. It's a how-to manual. We all buy something at Best Buy for Christmas. You look at the direction, how to put it together, how to use or operate the piece equipment you purchased. That's what the Constitution is for the United States. They have Article One that basically says Legislative Branch this is all your powers. This is everything you can and can't do. Article Two in the manual is Executive Branch. These are all your powers. This is what you can and cannot do. Then Article Three is the same with the Judiciary. Then if you got to very back at the bill of rights you have the Tenth Amendment, which the way, every power that's not in the handbook and those articles for those three branches of government if it's not given to the federal government or prohibited it is reserved to the states. This is as simple as I can make it for high school students. Governor, having talked about the Tenth Amendment, how does your interpretation of the Tenth Amendment shape your policy plans?

GOV. JOHN KASICH: My view is we can talk about the constitution on this but we can also talk about practicality. I don't want to be completely off the deep end but there's not a lot that seems to be working very well in Washington. Why? When a person tries to do everything they don't do anything very well. What we've seen is accumulation of power in Washington and it's just not working. What we really need to do from a practical point of view, not just from a philosophical point of view, although I agree with the philosophy, which is if it's not something that the feds have to do the state should be able to do it. Think about it this way. If I move education, K to 12 education, from Washington into the states then the states get to figure out what works for them. Then, here's the beauty of it. As I look at what you’re doing you can look at what I'm doing as the governor of Ohio or we could look at what's happening in Mississippi or Nevada, wherever and we can learn from one another. Then, what it does is two things. One, it stops this one size fits all mentality. Let me tell you. Everybody in this room whether you're ... Everybody here I assume is Republic. I'm going to say you're not, doesn't matter. We know that the welfare system constantly needs to be reformed, but if you want to change the welfare system in fundamental ways you have to go ask for permission from people in Washington. I don't like that idea. Let me run my program in my state the way I want to run it based on our situation and our values, not on the basis of somebody in Washington. They don't even know what time zone Ohio is in. If you call down there from Ohio they'll say, what time is it there? We're in eastern by the way in case you didn't know. There's a couple things you can achieve. First of all we get to end the one size fits all mentality. Give you another one, job training. Basically, under the federal government rules, including republican and congress you have to lose your job with the bulk of the money that goes to you before you can train somebody. Why wouldn't train somebody while they're working so they don't lose their job. Why don't we just put job training right down here in the hands of the legislature? What we could do is we would be shifting power out of there, shifting money out of there. We would begin to fashion solutions based on who we are, which all the states could then study. Then, finally we center the federal government on what it needs to do, not everything that it's doing now and then that's consistent with what you have in the tenth amendment. We tried to do this back when I was budget chairman. We did some changes. We did lose in some of the strengths but we had a democrat president. We couldn't get everything done that we want but I actually believe that welfare and Medicaid, education and job training and infrastructure and probably more need to be sent to the states and then you go ahead and do it. You got to spend the money on what it is you get the money to do. You can't take Medicaid money and pay Senator. I'm not saying you would. I'm just saying to you there has to be some kind of like guard rails but frankly you got to do a better job of fixing these problems than they are. That's what the Tenth Amendment is all designed to say, but you got to have somebody that's going to do it. You got to just do it a little at a time.

On the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)

ATTORNEY GENERAL ALAN WILSON: Next, I'm going to turn to the EPA. Some of you think that stands for the Environmental Protection Agency. I refer to it as the Eliminate Prosperity Agency because they just regulations coming down businesses. One particular one that I'm working on right now, anyone heard of WOTUS, The WOTUS Regulation of Waters in the US? Basically what that says is they're redefining what is considered a water of the US, which is a navigable water that's interstate between the states and nature like Mississippi River would be the most textbook definition. The way they've rewritten the rule it could be a low-lying area in your backyard of your business or your home, a ditch that is filled with water that is a [inaudible 00:27:02] of nature and filled with water two or three months out of the year could now be a navigable water or waters of the Waters of the U.S. You would have to go to the federal government, not state government, and federal government in order to build or use your land the way you want to.

GOV. JOHN KASICH: That's where it goes back to what I talked about on regulations before. Number one, anything that's going to cost more than a $100 million has to be voted on by the congress. Number two, you have to have a cost-benefit analysis. In other words, the benefit from the regulation should be more than cost. That's supposed to be applied but it is not. Thirdly, in my budget I wanted to create a people's court. They said the judge who's got the people...Judge Watner has got a people's court. Here's what we're going to do. We do this in Ohio with our even EPA. I would appoint a bunch of people who are independent to be a place for us to go when bureaucracies are coming up with really bad rules. You would have a place to go that could join you in your effort to reverse the decision that we happily know is absurd. First of all you got to have people to run these things who are not out there to make these decisions that are extreme. By the way, in my state, my EPA director is loved by small business because we want to make sure we have a good environment. You just don't want to be crazy about this. To give you an example, we have a fracking industry in Ohio. We have very, very tough rules on fracking. We want to know what you’re putting in the ground. We want to know if there's a fire in the well head. You got to report it, a lot of things like that, but the companies they're fine with it. You know why? Because it's simple, it's clear, and if you make a mistake we're not there to pound you into the ground. If you have an evil intent that's one thing. If you make a mistake we'll help you. Can you imagine that my EPA director is so appreciated by small business? You can do this but then the key is, and look I got the whole issue with bureaucracy as well, you sell people throughout your bureaucracies to carry out your purpose. The purpose is common sense. Don't be saying because you got water in your backyard somehow you can't walk into your backyard. That's so ridiculous. We get a little common sense and the commons sense is the kind of people you put in. Then you have other opportunities to make sure you get it done. Frankly, all these federal rules need to be reviewed and the ones that don't make any sense ought to be gathered in a bundle and they ought to be repealed. Secondly, you got to have people inside those bureaucracies who understand what it's all about. They don't understand that the most important thing for a person to do is to create a job for somebody. If they're killing jobs then they're hurting families, communities, states and the country. Actually folks, it's a hard thing but if you can get the right management, if you've got the right leadership from the top and at the same time you encourage people who work at these agencies to use commons sense and for them to realize that what they do in their job matters. You can do that. You can get people's moral up and they do a better job. This is a real big issue with this a real big issue with this country because the regulatory side whether it's Dodd-Frank on Banks or whether it's EPA and excessive regulations ... You're suing the EPA right now ... I'm suing it because it's going to shut down a chunk of my economy based on some rule ... I don't think they have the authority. This is going to end up, I hope, in the Supreme Court where they're going to be able to rule on excessive regulatory decision-making. I guess I've had that on my chest for a while.

ATTORNEY GENERAL ALAN WILSON: The bottom line is the need to balance a livable environment with the cost of regulations and not mutually exclusive. We can do both.

GOV. JOHN KASICH: Right, you can do both. You don't need to say we have to have a fracking, for example. It's controversial, right. People read about it and it was controversial. It's not controversial for me. You don't come in and you don't do dumb things and we'll have some guidelines. You'll follow them and that's the end of it. What companies don't want is uncertainty and things that are just excessive, that don't add anything and just are punitive. In the beginning I had people that were protesting the fracking. People are like, oh no, no, we should have. We have these protesters out here. I said, I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I'm going to take these moms who have kids who graduated from college who are living in their attic, who can get a job in the energy industry and I'm going to have the moms have a talking to the protesters. That will be the end of that. The fact of the matter is we got an industry that is growing. It's not the end of everything here but it's fine and we keep managing it the right way we'll have great success on this.

On Obamacare

ATTORNEY GENERAL ALAN WILSON: Okay, I'm going to move quickly on this because I'm going to try to get a team in soon, the folks out here that came to see you. Obamacare, been challenged twice by the states. I was in both of those lawsuits, five or four of those, not going to litigate why the Supreme Court was wrong, but what would you do? Would you work to repeal Obamacare and if so, what would you replace it with?

GOV. JOHN KASICH: Well, first of all of course we would get rid of it because it's imposed higher costs on insurance, the mandate for that. The Republican Party cannot...You know why we have Obamacare? Because Republicans have the majority for a long time and they didn't do anything about people who had preexisting conditions. I mean people who couldn't get health insurance. What, are you going to have somebody go bankrupt because they got a condition that they can't get insured for? That's just wrong. We should have been working aggressively to have a program in place that was market-driven. The first thing I would do is to get rid of a lot of those mandates. That would drive the cost of insurance down. We need to make it affordable. Secondly, I would take some of the federal resources and block down here to South Carolina and I would combine them with Medicaid so that the working poor would be able to have some form of health insurance. That's what I would do initially, but longer term we have a bigger issue. The issue is we practice medicine that rewards quantity. If the General, God forbid, had to go to the hospital tonight and he needed two tests, senator, how many you think he'd be given?

Speaker 4: Twelve.

GOV. JOHN KASICH: Twelve somebody says. You know, if you go to the hospital and you need a CAT scan they give you a MRI. You know why? Because no one cares. No one's connected to this so the cost keep going up and I believe there's a better way to do this. I believe that we could use a market system to reward people for keeping us healthy or getting us healthy once we're sick. That is a whole change in the way we think of healthcare. Our primary care physician ought to get money in his or her pocket for keeping us healthy. There are ways to get this done. We are driving this nationally out of Ohio. Let me just give you an example. There is an agreement between the children's hospital in Columbus and the insurance company. One of the biggest reasons why, probably the biggest reasons why children end up in the hospital is for asthma. It used to be if you had asthma they stick you in the hospital. I had a daughter that had RSV as a baby. She needed to be in the hospital but what they found is a big chunk of people who were being put in the hospital don't have to go into the hospital. They could be treated on an outpatient basis. If they're treated that way that means the hospital loses money. Right? They don't have as many business. The insurance company, they got more profits because they're not paying claims. Guess what happens the hospital and the insurance company is sharing the fact that the kid was not put in the hospital. We need to know how our hospitals do. We need to know how our physicians do. We need to make sure that the patient is in the middle of all this, and then you need to use a market-driven system to change the whole way in which we think about medicine. You don't know what your doctor makes. You don't know if your doctor's any good, do you? If I were to ask how many of you in here have a great doctor you'd all raise your hand. If you were to say how many of you in here have a great hospital? How is your hospital doing, you wouldn't know because transparency doesn't exist. The ability to shop as a consumer is really critical. The ability of the health plans to drive more efficient but yet high quality healthcare doesn't exist right now, starting to but it doesn't really exist. Here's what the problem is folks. My dad carried mail on his back. His father was a coal miner and my mother's mother couldn't speak English. You know what happens when people start rationing healthcare? Who do you think gets rationed? You think the guy who is the CEO get the ration or is it the mailman who get the rationing? We have to confront this issue. We have to slow down the cost of healthcare while keeping the quality high so we all can benefit. I have been going to debate stages where I get to talk for six minutes about to fix the healthcare system okay. I tell them that and how we can secure world peace but that's why these forums are important because then you get to hear extensively how people are going to deal with these things. Finally, as a Governor I can't blame somebody else. I didn't get this done because Obama was president. I have to lead. I have to have a resolve just like Nikki Haley. You got to show what you did to get report card. Then when you're an executive you got to face reality and that's why you have to think very seriously about whether we want somebody who's not been an executive, who we can judge based on what they've done because that's the best way to figure out what they might do, to lead our country like you said.

On Dodd-Frank

ATTORNEY GENERAL ALAN WILSON: Dodd-Frank is where I want to go next. Like Obamacare, Dodd-Frank is a bill that's over 2000 pages long. Like Obamacare, Dodd-Frank is a law that has tens of thousands of pages of regulations to implement it. Like Obamacare, Dodd-Frank centralizes control of an entire industry in Washington D.C. by the bureaucrats who ruled over it. Dodd-Frank has been trying to make bail on Wall Street while making capital harder to get on Main Street. That is one of the issues with Dodd-Frank. What would you propose we do with Dodd-Frank? What would you recommend in the free market in regulating?

GOV. JOHN KASICH: I think that the financial industry does have regulations. We don't want to have no regulations in the financial industry but the problem with Dodd-Frank is it's got so strong that your community banks and your regional banks are getting crushed. What we're going to end up with is them selling, you know that. Maybe you don't know that. I'm sure you don't. If you're a small business person you kind of know it because there are so many rules and restrictions on you first of all and you’re having a hard time dealing with the burden of reporting. Secondly, it's so difficult to make loans today. If you're a small business and you can't get a loan from your local bank who do you think you're going to get it from? Not that there wouldn't be big banks that would loan but that's not what works really efficiently. In terms of the big banks, if they're going to take risks they got to observer their own money to take those risks. That's what I think they should do so that we don't have to bail them out. Based on risk they ought to be the ones to set have them set aside their own assets in order to cover that risk. We don't to have no regulations but we don't want to have regulations that are going to wipe out the small banks and this whole thing needs to either needs to, I'm going to say repealed. That sounds good everybody but I don't know the practicality of that but the practicality is there to skinny all this down and make sure that our small banks are not going to be crushed because when they can't deal with it they sell to a big bank. That's what happens and then you don't have your little bank. I got to get rid of the Delaware County bank. I called them yesterday. I said you need to stop paying in on a check, the check is lost. They don't make me come in. I say, okay, Laura is here. Laura knows me. How's it going John? Read about you in the paper. Why don't you come into the bank once in a while? We have a relationship and that's what you want with your local community right. I got this pharmacy. I call it the uptight pharmacy and I go there and I pay a little bit more but I want the community but I want them to deliver something to my house if I'm not there. We don't want to be stomping out these little folks because congress got carried away and did something too extreme.

ATTORNEY GENERAL ALAN WILSON: Yeah, I've spoken to bankers who told me, these are community bankers who used to give character loans. The guy that you grew up playing basketball with is a farmer and now they're terrified of giving a character loan and that farmer can't go to the big bank and get a loan anymore. It's made it very difficult for small town businesses and bankers to lend money to.

GOV. JOHN KASICH: Small businesses, yeah. In our state now those small business will pay income tax. Small businesses are the ones who create jobs. Pretty good, isn't that General? No payment on income tax for small business because they pay on the individual loan and you just don't do that. We also kill the debt tax, by the way, small business can turn their business over to their kids without having to visit the undertaker and the tax guy on the same day. Now that we've killed the debt tax we're working on killing death. We haven't made a lot of progress

ATTORNEY GENERAL ALAN WILSON: That's really good. One thing, we'll close with this.

GOV. JOHN KASICH: You mean we're killing death, that's a good thing if we could get there.

ATTORNEY GENERAL ALAN WILSON: A banker once told me he says, for every dollar I have to spend on regulatory compliance we need a higher level or a regulation appliance officer. That's ten less dollar I can give as a home loan or a ten less dollar to a small business loan or ten less dollars to a student loan. He's says there's a lot of dollars we're having to spend on regulatory compliance. We obviously want to be regulated but we don't want to be strangulated.

GOV. JOHN KASICH: Good point.

On the 2nd Amendment and National Labor Relations Board (NLRB)

ATTORNEY GENERAL ALAN WILSON: Moving on. I'm not going to qualify the question. I'm just going to say the topic more to get to you guys. Second amendment, right. This is a Second Amendment state, anybody want to ask anything on the Second Amendment? We'll move forward. National Labor Relations Board. The very first month I was in office I heard that NLRB, they tries to prevent a small Starbucks airplane coming. What kind of people would you like to see the National Labor Relations Board?

GOV. JOHN KASICH: You can't have bias, people that are toting everything one way. You got to have balance. That's what you got to do. You can't have a politicized board like that. That's completely inappropriate. I've read about some of the fights you've had down here. It's none of their business. I don't think ... It shouldn't be a partisan left leaning. It should be something that's balanced. I don't know. I'm not an expert in the NLRB but I get the sense it's become very, very political and I don't like that.

On Religious Liberty

ATTORNEY GENERAL ALAN WILSON: The next area I'd like to touch on is religious liberty. I've talked to people around South Carolina, around the country and everyone recognizes the Supreme Court’s ruling on Obergefell, the same-sex marriage case. People obviously don't want to discriminate or treat your fellow citizens any differently but people are also concerned that religious liberty, the right to practice your convictions could be infringed upon by the government. Do you believe that there's a balance to protect the new right of same-sex marriage with the rights of people to run their businesses whether it's a cake baker or a wedding planner the way that they want. Is there a balance there?

GOV. JOHN KASICH: The only thing I can tell you is if you're in the [wedding] business and you're making cupcakes, just make cupcakes. That's my feeling. I'm for the traditional definition of marriage but the court has ruled and my opinion is you move on from that. I will tell you that nobody has the right to impose these kinds of things on our religious institutions. I belong to a church and our minister, he's not going to perform gay weddings. We're just not going to do it and we shouldn't have to, but I've been to a gay wedding by the way. A friend of mine got married in a secular ceremony and asked my wife if she was going to go she said, yes and the weather, it was fine. I think these are really tough issues but my sense is you got to be very careful not to impose this on our religious institutions. That's where you absolutely draw the line.

ATTORNEY GENERAL ALAN WILSON: Would you defend the tax of substantive churches who want to practice their faith a certain way?

GOV. JOHN KASICH: No. Why would we do that? We have to protect their ability to perform what they perform, like my church. I belong to an Anglican church. We're not going to be performing gay weddings. We're just not. If they try to take away our tax exemption...that's not going to happen if I'm president. There's no way that's going to happen so don't worry about it.

ATTORNEY GENERAL ALAN WILSON: I'm asking these questions because these are topics and I feel like they deserve to be asked. Last question that we'll go to. I know that we're getting to the end but I just recently sent up a letter to the President of the United States on load and transferring.

GOV. JOHN KASICH:        We're going to forget that.

ATTORNEY GENERAL ALAN WILSON:         South Carolina is one of the three states…

GOV. JOHN KASICH:        No, not going to deal with that.

ATTORNEY GENERAL ALAN WILSON:         That's good to know because I agree with you.